Welcome to the class blog! The John Jay - Vera Fellows Program is a collaborative effort between John Jay College and the spin-off agencies of the Vera Institute of Justice, combining an internship and participation in a seminar taught by faculty from John Jay's Interdisciplinary Studies Program. (To see a video about the John Jay - Vera Fellows Program, click here.) Part of the seminar experience is weekly participation in the class blog, which keeps the conversation going from week to week and will be a place for you to share your thoughts and concerns about the materials discussed in seminar as well as the internship experience. The opinions expressed on this blog do not necessarily reflect the views of the Vera Institute of Justice or its spin-off organizations. While the blog is open to the public and anyone, theoretically, can comment, only class members and invited guests will be able to post. You can also look for us on our student and alumni page on Facebook.
Each student has been assigned one week to write the "post." Please post within 24 hours after class. Every week, each student must comment on the post (feel free to comment more than once). Please comment by Monday afternoon to allow time for further questions and responses and so that we can read all the entries before class.

Saturday, February 18, 2012

DETAINED

On behalf of all the Verons, I want to give thanks to Peter Kiers, Richard and Kim for taking a moment to share their knowledge and expertise with us on the Criminal Justice Agency (CJA). For some of us, it was an eye opening experience and very imformative. For others, the visit to the criminal court building might have been simply a reiteration and a reminder of what really goes on behind the scenes within the Criminal Justice System that is contrary to many of the law and crime shows portrayed and viewed on television. I applaud the people of CJA for all the outstanding effort and work that they do.

In the past, certain people were being detained not necessarily because of the crime they were being accused of, but because of their financial status. I think that CJA's interviews with the arrested defendants are crucial and somewhat plays an intricate part in the outcome of an individual's case. Through the interviews conducted, CJA is able to determine the defendant's ties to the community. By using the point scale system, recommendations are made to release the defendant on their own recognizance. A great point was raised that I think is very important to mention. I think it is essential that the interviewers explain their function to the defendants (especially first timers) at the time of the interview. Many of the individuals may wonder if the interviewer is an adversary or an ally. Many of them do not bother asking and are left with the assumption that the interviewers are a part of law enforcement or the courts. I have known individuals to decline or even go as far as giving false information to an interviewer based on that assumption. Unaware that the disclosure of such information is used for their benefit, the defendants actually jeapordized their chances for release. While detained, it is difficult to obtain adequate legal representation, collect evidence, gather witnesses, all essential for formulating a proper defense. Denied access to these resources can lead to a conviction or a reluctant plea bargain on behalf of the defendant. I also like the CJA function of conducting interviews at arraignment court for individuals accused of committing misdemeanor crimes. The recommendation for community and social services is a great alternative to incarceration. The prison system is overcrowded, a large population includes those charged with non-violent crimes that pose no threat to society. So effectively reducing the prison population accompanied with rehabilitation and reintergration will benefit society as a whole.

What procedures or practices can be implemented at CJA that may reduce the amount of people that walk through the doors seeking assistance with reentry at an agency like the Center for Employment Opportunities (CEO)?

I must say that the last part of our visit to central bookings provoked the most structural examination on my part. (After proofreading my original blog post, I had realized how it was written with extreme subjectivity. So everyone is now reading the revised, edited and self-censored version of what I had originally written Thursday night.) I recall one of our class discussions in which we discussed viewing individuals while they were confined behind the bars of a jail cell. We questioned if that would be like observing animals in cages at a zoo. For me, it is definitely a totally different experience than viewing the old (unoccupied) cells at Eastern Penitentiary. Ironically, the first clear statement I heard from within one of the cells was "Yo, they looking at us like we animals, son!" Is that what we were doing? Was these defendants being observed like they were on display for us? We recently engaged in a lesson/discussion on if it is moral to benefit from the suffering of others. Were these individuals subjected to some level of suffering behind those bars? If so, what were we benefiting by bearing witness to their situation? Some refer to the detainees' behavior as sometimes animalistic. This raises a question. Is that particular behavior a result of the environment and conditions they're currently confined to? Or, are those individuals currently confined to that enviornment and conditions because of that very same behavior?

I later heard of the offensive remarks the detainess made towards several people. "We like our victims a certain way" resonates with me once again here. I personally did not expect any of them to give friendly greetings to any of us under those circumstances. When I heard of the "monstrous" things that was said by the detainees, I thought Grendel. Hrothgar and his men treated Grendel as a monster. In time, Grendel internalized the "monster label" and acted as such. Can the same be said for these detainees? Are they only internalizing how they are being treated? I think what is also interesting is that some of us expected to be the spectator. Instead, we became the ones that were being spectated, analyzed and critiqued, to our dismay.
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15 comments:

Simon said...

Going to CJA and learning about what they do was definitely interesting. We have all heard about what their jobs are in the criminal justice system a few times already, but seeing the amount of work that they have to do is something else. It's good to see people (especially John Jay alumni) working so hard for others, especially when there's so many people they help each day.

On the question of whether the environment causes the behavior or if people go into the environment behaving the way they do, I would think the environment causes it. The question kept on reminding me of the Stanford Prison Experiment. However, the real thing was very unnerving. It was also surprising at first to become the ones to be spectated as Timothy said. Although thinking back on the situation, I can't help but think I would have done the same thing in that situation. I had a talk with Gary about this on the subway ride back to school, that there's nothing else to do besides observe what's happening while being in the cells. As for the degrading comments, I guess it doesn't matter how bad their comments were, because it probably wouldn't get any worse than the situation they were in.

I guess the overall feeling that I left with that day was questioning how great our nation or city can really be if we have so many people being locked up. It makes me wonder if we're just sweeping all the problems under the carpet (I'm sure somebody has made that analogy somewhere and I just never thought about it too hard until Thursday).

February 19, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Robert Riggs said...

Having read Roberts' biography of Sturz and having learned about the Manhattan Bail Project, I was amazed at the organization that is CJA today. It's a massive operation that has become fully integrated into New York's criminal justice system. Indeed, with the renovations at the Brooklyn House of Detention, the agency has become architecturally incorporated. Despite my oft-voiced critique of hero worship and my by now well-known suspicion of the "social entrepreneurship" fad, I can't help but be impressed that all of this started with Sturz and Schweitzer. There can be no doubt about the value of CJA to those defendants who would otherwise languish in jail for nothing other than want of money to post bail: the system is fairer and more just because CJA exists.

And yet, standing in the area with the holding pens, I could not help thinking of a line from Roberts' book; it's one I used in my review of the book. According to Roberts, the Manhattan Bail Project was the outcome of Sturz and Schweitzer's disgust upon visiting a jail at “the Dickensian squalor: the filth, the stench, the overcrowding, and the pervasive sense of despair and degradation among people the system presumed innocent.” This is a perfect description of what we witnessed last Thursday in my opinion. It's a reminder that as far as we have come since the days when the only options were bail or jail, we still have a ways to go.

"Yo, they looking at us like we animals, son!" I didn't hear this, but... How interesting, as Timothy and Simon recognize, is this whole thing about looking. While inside there, I fought against my impulse NOT to look any of "them" in the eye. On the way out, I sort of pointedly looked at a guy and kind of smiled. I knew right away from his expression that it was the wrong thing to do. I told Dani and Christine about it as we were walking to the train, and Dani instinctively knew it was the wrong thing. She said something like, "Oh, you can't do that." She's right of course, but why? I wanted to convey the opposite of the sentiment expressed by the guy Timothy heard. I was trying to look at another human being AS another human being, just the way I would look at anyone else. But when some people are in cages and other people aren't, everything is skewed. The cage constructs the animal. The lack of it constructs the human. The human can't look at the animal as a human.

February 20, 2012 at 12:06 AM
Cynthia Navarrete said...

Hello Verons
I missed a great trip hearing from what Timothy was saying. I was severely sick and couldn't make it. On the other hand, what Timothy said is true. I think that when someone is labeled a certain way, they will be highly influenced by that label. What I disagree with is the person acting out the role of the label that is placed on them. It is their decision whether to pick up that label or not. I would look at the crime they have committed. The person was influenced by something or somebody, however they decided to commit the crime as a result of that influence. This is something we strongly believe about the abusers that have been arrested as a result of domestic violence.

February 20, 2012 at 2:49 PM
Prof. Stein said...

One of our group remarked that “it sure doesn’t smell like innocence in here”, a visceral response to the sweat and piss that hung in air and the look of men piled in, their weaponized words to us the only assertion of power available to them in that moment. That observation came back to me over the weekend when I was reading an article about little girls who were kidnapped to repay familial debts in certain parts of the world and how they were kept from bathing and changing clothes by their captors, sometimes for months. This made them filthy and wretched and… much easier to beat or rape. After all, they stank like animals. They were not human. (Probably, the Giants stank too, after the Superbowl, but that smelled like victory. Everything in life is context.)

The conditions of captivity create the justification for captivity. (If you have not ever read it, google the famous Stanford Prison Experiment that Simon mentioned to see what I mean.) We heard that the vast majority of people we saw on Thursday were suspected of very minor infractions. Even if not innocent, they were guilty of… not much. But they sure smelled guilty, crowded into close quarters for long hours. Timothy asked me on the train ride home: why are they even locked up? If they aren’t dangerous, why can’t they just be in a waiting room? I could not answer. The question had not even occurred to me! I had not smelled their innocence.

The paradox is this: to look is to shame, to mock, to participate in the system, to “benefit” as Tim says, in some way to underline one’s own privilege in contradistinction to the helplessness of those behind bars. But to not look is perhaps worse: If Sturz and Schweitzer do not look, there is no CJA.

I have “studied” violent men in prison and, even if I meant to highlight their humanity, I had to grapple with the moral ambiguity of profiting in some sense (tenure, promotion, standing in the academic community) from their suffering and the collateral suffering of their families and victims. There is no easy answer. I once read an interview with a Native American woman who said of the social scientists who came to publicize the plight of her people: First, they came for our land, our animals, our homes, our children. Now they come for our stories. They just take everything.

Robert smiled in an attempt to humanize; most of the women averted their eyes. Timothy and Roberto lagged behind; I thought maybe carrying a special burden because of their own race. Such a viewing is stark reminder of our positionality and our special obligation to widen our gaze. Is it okay to look? Yes and no. The more pressing question is: can we avert out eyes from the men long enough to see the injustice? Clearly, the people who work for CJA manage to, day in and out. I am awed by that accomplishment.

February 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM
Gary said...

As an intern working for the New York Criminal Justice Agency, I am proud of its role in the criminal justice system. When I started working for CJA, Richard told me right away what CJA did. I will never forget what he told me, "CJA has two mission: 1. Their main goal is to help defendants be released on their own recognizance depending on their ties with the community. 2. They help save the city money by not sending defendants to Riker's Island (no need to pay extra money for correction officers, transportation, food, etc.). To make it clear, the CJA is there to help defendants in a way, not to make their situation worse. From shadowing the interviewers, at the beginning of the interview they follow a protocol stating that they do not work with any law enforcement agency.

From my perspective, the Criminal Justice Agency is like a legal aid/representative for the defendant because in some way they either recommend you to be released or not. The judge takes into consideration the interview and the point-scale when making a decision. They are a big influence in a defendant's life which is why the defendant needs to understand their true information is vital.

I cannot disagree with Simon about the environment making them aggressive and impolite. I feel like since the defendants are behind a cage (already being degraded) they, in one way or another, want to degrade the other people who are standing on the other side of the cage to not feel lonely. What annoys me the most is that they have the audacity to say smart comments while sitting behind the bars, but once they come face to face with the judge or they are released on their own recognizance their attitude all of a sudden changes and they show either remorse or an "I do not care." They are behind a cage for reason yet it be for a felony or misdemeanor. I do have to disagree with Tim on the defendants not being dangerous. As we know any crime is wrong either it be from jumping the turnstile to killing someone, they all in a way affect society.

February 20, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Timothy Fowler said...

Just the mere usage of the term "cage" somewhat points out the recognition that there is something animalistic about placing individuals in one.

Gary, I do agree that people are in "cages" for a reason. I also agree that there was a crime committed that landed them there. However, many times it's the crimes of society that ultimately placed a large number of individuals in those "cages". Keeping with the animal analogy, should a turnstile jumping kitten be treated the same as a violent, murderous lion??

Robert, I myself felt the need to speak to one of the detainees to somehow show that I acknowledged his intrinsic value. I did also think about how we can DEhumanize by NOT looking. How we at some point in our lives purposely turned our eyes away to avoid the uncomfortableness of a stare too long at a person who was obese, disabled, developmentally impaired or someone with some sort of disfigurement. So I indeed get your intentions by dispaying a smile. I guess within that type of structure, when received from the other side of the bars, may be taken as "haha! I'm out here and you're in there." Sort of like how I used to feel while in the blistering winter cold, standing at a busstop when someone pulls up at a red light, stares and smiles at me through the window of their warm-comfy car.

February 20, 2012 at 8:02 PM
Dani said...

I could not get the detainees and that zoo-like atmosphere and smell out of mind for a couple days. It sounds so wrong, but I was so much more appreciative since that day, no more complaining about the cold considering I can feel fresh air unlike them. I do have to say that as soon as I looked up and saw we were literally entering holding cells with men packed to the limit, on instinct alone, I was pushing my hair in my face and preparing to phase out all forms of noise... I knew this was about to get have ridiculous and obscene comments yelled at me. But then I looked at the two interviewers that were sitting there conducting all of them and couldn't help but raise my head to it all. I had to look a couple of the detainees in the face, I wanted to gauge their "evilness." Instead, most of them looked beaten down and their eyes showed hardship (they also went quiet immediately after I stared them back in the face which I thought was interesting)..
And to talk about choosing victims..Did anyone see the kid with the grey Hollister sweatshirt getting booked? I almost couldn't stop staring, he looked like he was barely in high school and couldn't harm a fly...all I could think was 'what the hell is happening' I wanted to walk up to him and escort him right back to school or anywhere but there.
Robert and I were also talking about how the officers and court personal must feel too. If I were a cop and it was my day to spend in that dungeon, I almost could not help but be bitter and have even more resentment towards 'criminals' that are out on the street. There's two sides to look at down there. It would be very hard to be stuck in extreme heat smelling of poop, pee and vomit and having people yell at you all day long. I couldn't help but think of how there is a certain circle of resentment from both sides that directly effect each other. How do we stop it?

February 20, 2012 at 8:02 PM
Gary said...

Well, to be honest, appearances should not be taking into consideration when the defendant is receiving his punishment. Either a teen or an adult are capable of committing the same crime. We cannot let appearances fool us. Just because a ten year old boy gives off an innocent and warming presence does not mean they cannot pull a trigger and kill someone. What the criminal justice system should work on is giving the right and appropiate punishment to everybody because we are all equal in front of the laws. I am not trying to be harsh or mean but fair.

February 20, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Roberto Celestin said...

I think the work that CJA is doing is remarkable. When reading the biography of Sturz I was blown away to how just one idea and generous donation could make the justice system much more efficient. But with every innovation comes more difficulties to make this idea faster, stronger, and more reasonable. The best innovation as Timothy pointed out of instead of cages actually making it more like a waiting room (for the least violent offenders of course). If CJA wants to play the role of advocate that idea would be more welcomed if the atmosphere and surroundings gave this idea.
For personal reasons going into any setting where people are detained or held against their will is something that always gets me. On previous occasions I feel like a prisoner because although I will be in that world for a short period of time, the feeling always consumes me. I thought going to the offices of CJA I would finally get over it, but I was wrong. A combination of the smell, men in cages, shouting of insensitive things, one man even claiming that they were being viewed as animals, and even people I recognized (the kid with the grey Hollister sweatshirt) made me confused with many different emotions and thoughts. Why would anyone remain angry when they are in a facility which is supposed to advocate for the release on recognizance or bail. Then I realized as everyone is referring to here it is the environment. Just as the environment consumed me with different emotions in several minutes imagine being there for several hours for something simple because you forgot to switch your wallet into the pants you chose to wear that day. No matter the crime and the individual the environment and setting was constructed in such a way to breed anger and frustration. So as mentioned before a change in the way these men are held (non-violent/aggressive crimes) would do a lot to changing the mindset of the of these men and better give the message of CJA’s position in the Justice system as an advocate.

February 20, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Ruby A. said...

I dreaded this trip since I heard it was on our agenda. The idea of looking at the detgainees while in the cell as if they were animals was appalling to me. Instead I was unpleasantly surprised by the exact opposite. While I stood there and heard the disgusting comments that were being said to Dani and I, I couldn't help feeling that them behind bars WAS justice. I'm still sorting out my feelings.

February 21, 2012 at 12:04 AM
Popy Begum said...

What a powerful trip. In my honest opinion, the trip was bittersweet. While in certain moments I felt enlightened, in others, I wanted to run away and hide. The sight of defendants cluttered in small cells was really vexatious to my happy spirit. As Robert mentioned, the trip allowed me to recollect, A Kind of Genius, as well as develop a deep appreciation for CJA and its purpose. It’s really disappointing to know that some defendants do not know the functioning of CJA, and in fact lie to the interviewers because they aren’t aware that the interviewers are there to help. As Timothy mentioned in his post, this is truly a pity! Professor Reitz pointed out a sign on the CJA office door that read, “Keep the door closed to keep flies out.” I’m not sure if anyone else saw this sign, but given that I’m a germaphobe, it really made me uncomfortable to be there. The sign, in addition to, the scene raised many questions on hygiene.

I, like Robert, did not here the, "Yo, they looking at us like we animals, son!" I wonder how I would’ve felt if I had heard it. On the other hand, I did hear one of us say, “It sure doesn’t smell like innocence in here.” I hate to say it, but I completely agree. When I first walked into the cell area, a part of me felt sorry because I think it's pretty natural of me to feel sorry for anyone who is deprived of their freedom, regardless of their actions. However, hearing all the hostile remarks the defendants shouted at us made me less empathetic. I was more than annoyed when one of the defendants shouted, “Get us out of here, you assholes.” I am not surprised by Robert’s attempt to humanize those behind bars. As we all may or may not know, it’s the kind and gentle person in him that allows his to do these things. Again, his action did not take me by surprise. As I was leaving, I unintentionally made eye contact with one of the defendants, only to regret it a few seconds later, when he winked at me. It made me shiver. But as Simon mentioned, the environment contributes to their hostility and reasoning to be impolite.

As for Timothy and Roberto lagging behind, I noticed that too. Whether it was intentional or unintentional, I understand. As always, Timothy’s posts amaze me. He truly deserves an award for posting the most meaningful posts! Like Professor Stein, I am also awed by the accomplishment of CJA. It’s really amazing work, and I’m sure it takes really thick skin and a strong stomach to do this kind of work, day in and out.

I’m glad Gary appreciates CJA as his internship because I sure am NOT envious of his ability to do this kind of work. I thought working with youth offenders as CASES was difficult. Now, I know otherwise. Kudos to Gary! Love ya but wouldn’t want to be ya!

February 21, 2012 at 1:30 AM
Popy Begum said...

And of course a very, very warm thank you to Peter Kiers, Richard and Kim for spending the morning with us, and sharing their knowledge on CJA and the system as a whole.

February 21, 2012 at 1:34 AM
Professor Reitz said...

I was the one who said the comment about the holding cells not smelling like innocence. What I meant was that it didn't smell like presumed innocence, which is what, of course, they are in our system until proven guilty. And yet, as many of you have said, there's the problem: such an environment creates a reality that is contrary to the reality we think we operate by. When seeing the heavy bars -- even in the nicer "new" space -- and the in-cell toilet, I was stunned that this is where you are while still presumed innocent. Having to relieve myself in public would be dehumanizing; I sure wouldn't feel innocent until proven guilty. And then I thought about those folks who were in there for public urination and the whole thing just became almost surreal. Why on earth can't it be a waiting room? They said efforts were made to segregate those arrested for violent crimes, so the folks we were seeing were not dangerous -- why not just lock outer doors to the wing and assume that self-interest (behaving innocent) will keep everyone in their waiting-room seats?
I completely understand how the various comments/interactions affected us all differently -- our point about perspectives a hundredfold! -- and I appreciate everyone's honesty here in telling his/her story. My interaction involved a guy saying in his best white-woman-voice "Can I have some money for bail, lady." I had to smile - he read me and my Westchester zip code perfectly -- and he smiled back. In that moment, I thought here he is taking a little of his self back, being funny, calling it like he sees it. If he had been saying something really foul to me, would I see it that way? I'm not sure, but I agree with Tim that Grendel can help us understand this. Grendel says a lot of pretty horrible things, but it is clear to us that he does that in the process of trying to figure out who he is in a world that he is only beginning to understand is itself pretty horrible.

February 21, 2012 at 8:16 AM
Christine L. said...

The emphasis on the class issue we discovered within the criminal justice system seems prominent in our visit to the Criminal Justice Agency. Prior to the site visit, I did not realize just how much CJA does and their contribution to the criminal justice system. Reading about CJA was completely different from experiencing what actually happens. What seems like one small task has a huge impact on defendants, their families, police, parole officers, and everyone who comes in contact with the system. I agree with Robert, I am amazed by how everything started with Herb Sturz and how it has become a part of the criminal justice system. CJA is truly amazing.

I agree with Timothy’s statement on how the Vera Fellows became the ones who were observed and watched with every move we made. We thought we would make them feel uncomfortable, but in truth, we were the ones were uncomfortable. It is interesting how we perceive a situation would be, even after all our research, and in reality it could be completely different. I do not “blame” the defendants for their behavior, but rather I sympathize with the kind of environment they are forced to be in. Being in central booking made me feel powerless because I wanted to help the individuals, some of them looking only in their teens, but I could only stand and watch. Being forced to watch this kind of torture was almost torturous itself. How different would it be if the defendants knew we were there to help them and the deep connection we have with their struggles?

Professor Stein’s response reminds me of why I sincerely enjoy being a Vera Fellow. In no other instance could we discuss the issues in class, at our internships, and on a site-visit if it weren’t for this seminar and this blog! This particular blog and site visit forces us to recognize our own privileges and evaluate the injustices in system as a whole. I am at awe with the quote from the Native American Woman and I would have to agree. To the Other we are only the stranger who watches and almost fetishizes their existence, not realizing that this is reality and this is their life. Has society created the "monster" just so we could call ourselves the "hero"? How easy would it be for one of us to go down the same path as those being locked up in central booking? I relate with Professor Stein’s analysis of the paradox between observing the defendants and not observing them. One must look because one must face their “fear” and uncomfortable moments in order to conquer them and find solutions. To not look would be what Simon described as “sweeping our problems under the rug”.

February 21, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Ruby A. said...

Okay, so after much sorting out, here's where I stand: I keep ending up with the same internal battel to seperate what I know from what I saw and heard. I must say that I share in Timothy's struggle to not be subjective. Having said that, it's much easier to say that their isn't justice and that discrimination, biases, and hate are the prodominant factors of what society feels and portrays towards minorities and the underprivalaged in our society but the fact remains that THERE ARE really bad people out there that mess it up for all of us.When cops refer to detainees they refer to them as "EDP's"(emotionally disturbed person). Whenever I hear this term i can't help but relate to it a little. aren't we all imbalanced in some way or another?

February 23, 2012 at 6:34 AM

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